Doctrine and Covenants
88:1 - VERILY, thus saith the Lord unto you who have assembled yourselves together to receive his will concerning you:
88:2 - Behold, this is pleasing unto your Lord, and the angels rejoice over you; the alms of your prayers have come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, and are recorded in the book of the names of the sanctified, even them of the celestial world.
88:3 - Wherefore, I now send upon you another Comforter, even upon you my friends, that it may abide in your hearts, even the Holy Spirit of promise; which other Comforter is the same that I promised unto my disciples, as is recorded in the testimony of John.
88:4 - This Comforter is the promise which I give unto you of eternal life, even the glory of the celestial kingdom;
88:5 - Which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God, the holiest of all, through Jesus Christ his Son--
88:6 - He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth;
88:7 - Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.
88:8 - As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made;
88:9 - As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made;
88:10 - And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand.
88:11 - And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;
88:12 - Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space--
88:13 - The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.
88:14 - Now, verily I say unto you, that through the redemption which is made for you is brought to pass the resurrection from the dead.
88:15 - And the spirit and the body are the soul of man.
88:16 - And the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul.
88:17 - And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.
88:18 - Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory;
88:19 - For after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father;
88:20 - That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever; for, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified.
88:21 - And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom.
88:22 - For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.
88:23 - And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.
88:24 - And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory.
88:25 - And again, verily I say unto you, the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresseth not the law--
88:26 - Wherefore, it shall be sanctified; yea, notwithstanding it shall die, it shall be quickened again, and shall abide the power by which it is quickened, and the righteous shall inherit it.
88:27 - For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
88:28 - They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
88:29 - Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
88:30 - And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
88:31 - And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
88:32 - And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.
88:33 - For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift.
88:34 - And again, verily I say unto you, that which is governed by law is also preserved by law and perfected and sanctified by the same.
88:35 - That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.
88:36 - All kingdoms have a law given;
88:37 - And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.
88:38 - And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.
88:39 - All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.
88:40 - For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; light cleaveth unto light; mercy hath compassion on mercy and claimeth her own; justice continueth its course and claimeth its own; judgment goeth before the face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth all things.
88:41 - He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.
88:42 - And again, verily I say unto you, he hath given a law unto all things, by which they move in their times and their seasons;
88:43 - And their courses are fixed, even the courses of the heavens and the earth, which comprehend the earth and all the planets.
88:44 - And they give light to each other in their times and in their seasons, in their minutes, in their hours, in their days, in their weeks, in their months, in their years--all these are one year with God, but not with man.
88:45 - The earth rolls upon her wings, and the sun giveth his light by day, and the moon giveth her light by night, and the stars also give their light, as they roll upon their wings in their glory, in the midst of the power of God.
88:46 - Unto what shall I liken these kingdoms, that ye may understand?
88:47 - Behold, all these are kingdoms, and any man who hath seen any or the least of these hath seen God moving in his majesty and power.
88:48 - I say unto you, he hath seen him; nevertheless, he who came unto his own was not comprehended.
88:49 - The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall comprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him.
88:50 - Then shall ye know that ye have seen me, that I am, and that I am the true light that is in you, and that you are in me; otherwise ye could not abound.
88:51 - Behold, I will liken these kingdoms unto a man having a field, and he sent forth his servants into the field to dig in the field.
88:52 - And he said unto the first: Go ye and labor in the field, and in the first hour I will come unto you, and ye shall behold the joy of my countenance.
88:53 - And he said unto the second: Go ye also into the field, and in the second hour I will visit you with the joy of my countenance.
88:54 - And also unto the third, saying: I will visit you;
88:55 - And unto the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth.
88:56 - And the lord of the field went unto the first in the first hour, and tarried with him all that hour, and he was made glad with the light of the countenance of his lord.
88:57 - And then he withdrew from the first that he might visit the second also, and the third, and the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth.
88:58 - And thus they all received the light of the countenance of their lord, every man in his hour, and in his time, and in his season--
88:59 - Beginning at the first, and so on unto the last, and from the last unto the first, and from the first unto the last;
88:60 - Every man in his own order, until his hour was finished, even according as his lord had commanded him, that his lord might be glorified in him, and he in his lord, that they all might be glorified.
88:61 - Therefore, unto this parable I will liken all these kingdoms, and the inhabitants thereof--every kingdom in its hour, and in its time, and in its season, even according to the decree which God hath made.
88:62 - And again, verily I say unto you, my friends, I leave these sayings with you to ponder in your hearts, with this commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall call upon me while I am near--
88:63 - Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you; seek me diligently and ye shall find me; ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
88:64 - Whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is expedient for you;
88:65 - And if ye ask anything that is not expedient for you, it shall turn unto your condemnation.
88:66 - Behold, that which you hear is as the voice of one crying in the wilderness--in the wilderness, because you cannot see him--my voice, because my voice is Spirit; my Spirit is truth; truth abideth and hath no end; and if it be in you it shall abound.
88:67 - And if your eye be single to my glory, your whole bodies shall be filled with light, and there shall be no darkness in you; and that body which is filled with light comprehendeth all things.
88:68 - Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.
88:69 - Remember the great and last promise which I have made unto you; cast away your idle thoughts and your excess of laughter far from you.
88:70 - Tarry ye, tarry ye in this place, and call a solemn assembly, even of those who are the first laborers in this last kingdom.
88:71 - And let those whom they have warned in their traveling call on the Lord, and ponder the warning in their hearts which they have received, for a little season.
88:72 - Behold, and lo, I will take care of your flocks, and will raise up elders and send unto them.
88:73 - Behold, I will hasten my work in its time.
88:74 - And I give unto you, who are the first laborers in this last kingdom, a commandment that you assemble yourselves together, and organize yourselves, and prepare yourselves, and sanctify yourselves; yea, purify your hearts, and cleanse your hands and your feet before me, that I may make you clean;
88:75 - That I may testify unto your Father, and your God, and my God, that you are clean from the blood of this wicked generation; that I may fulfil this promise, this great and last promise, which I have made unto you, when I will.
88:76 - Also, I give unto you a commandment that ye shall continue in prayer and fasting from this time forth.
88:77 - And I give unto you a commandment that you shall teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom.
88:78 - Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand;
88:79 - Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms--
88:80 - That ye may be prepared in all things when I shall send you again to magnify the calling whereunto I have called you, and the mission with which I have commissioned you.
88:81 - Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.
88:82 - Therefore, they are left without excuse, and their sins are upon their own heads.
88:83 - He that seeketh me early shall find me, and shall not be forsaken.
88:84 - Therefore, tarry ye, and labor diligently, that you may be perfected in your ministry to go forth among the Gentiles for the last time, as many as the mouth of the Lord shall name, to bind up the law and seal up the testimony, and to prepare the saints for the hour of judgment which is to come;
88:85 - That their souls may escape the wrath of God, the desolation of abomination which awaits the wicked, both in this world and in the world to come. Verily, I say unto you, let those who are not the first elders continue in the vineyard until the mouth of the Lord shall call them, for their time is not yet come; their garments are not clean from the blood of this generation.
88:86 - Abide ye in the liberty wherewith ye are made free; entangle not yourselves in sin, but let your hands be clean, until the Lord comes.
88:87 - For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree.
88:88 - And after your testimony cometh wrath and indignation upon the people.
88:89 - For after your testimony cometh the testimony of earthquakes, that shall cause groanings in the midst of her, and men shall fall upon the ground and shall not be able to stand.
88:90 - And also cometh the testimony of the voice of thunderings, and the voice of lightnings, and the voice of tempests, and the voice of the waves of the sea heaving themselves beyond their bounds.
88:91 - And all things shall be in commotion; and surely, men's hearts shall fail them; for fear shall come upon all people.
88:92 - And angels shall fly through the midst of heaven, crying with a loud voice, sounding the trump of God, saying: Prepare ye, prepare ye, O inhabitants of the earth; for the judgment of our God is come. Behold, and lo, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
88:93 - And immediately there shall appear a great sign in heaven, and all people shall see it together.
88:94 - And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood--she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea--behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.
88:95 - And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;
88:96 - And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him.
88:97 - And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth, for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven--
88:98 - They are Christ's, the first fruits, they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him; and all this by the voice of the sounding of the trump of the angel of God.
88:99 - And after this another angel shall sound, which is the second trump; and then cometh the redemption of those who are Christ's at his coming; who have received their part in that prison which is prepared for them, that they might receive the gospel, and be judged according to men in the flesh.
88:100 - And again, another trump shall sound, which is the third trump; and then come the spirits of men who are to be judged, and are found under condemnation;
88:101 - And these are the rest of the dead; and they live not again until the thousand years are ended, neither again, until the end of the earth.
88:102 - And another trump shall sound, which is the fourth trump, saying: There are found among those who are to remain until that great and last day, even the end, who shall remain filthy still.
88:103 - And another trump shall sound, which is the fifth trump, which is the fifth angel who committeth the everlasting gospel--flying through the midst of heaven, unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people;
88:104 - And this shall be the sound of his trump, saying to all people, both in heaven and in earth, and that are under the earth--for every ear shall hear it, and every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, while they hear the sound of the trump, saying: Fear God, and give glory to him who sitteth upon the throne, forever and ever; for the hour of his judgment is come.
88:105 - And again, another angel shall sound his trump, which is the sixth angel, saying: She is fallen who made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication; she is fallen, is fallen!
88:106 - And again, another angel shall sound his trump, which is the seventh angel, saying: It is finished; it is finished! The Lamb of God hath overcome and trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.
88:107 - And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.
88:108 - And then shall the first angel again sound his trump in the ears of all living, and reveal the secret acts of men, and the mighty works of God in the first thousand years.
88:109 - And then shall the second angel sound his trump, and reveal the secret acts of men, and the thoughts and intents of their hearts, and the mighty works of God in the second thousand years--
88:110 - And so on, until the seventh angel shall sound his trump; and he shall stand forth upon the land and upon the sea, and swear in the name of him who sitteth upon the throne, that there shall be time no longer; and Satan shall be bound, that old serpent, who is called the devil, and shall not be loosed for the space of a thousand years.
88:111 - And then he shall be loosed for a little season, that he may gather together his armies.
88:112 - And Michael, the seventh angel, even the archangel, shall gather together his armies, even the hosts of heaven.
88:113 - And the devil shall gather together his armies; even the hosts of hell, and shall come up to battle against Michael and his armies.
88:114 - And then cometh the battle of the great God; and the devil and his armies shall be cast away into their own place, that they shall not have power over the saints any more at all.
88:115 - For Michael shall fight their battles, and shall overcome him who seeketh the throne of him who sitteth upon the throne, even the Lamb.
88:116 - This is the glory of God, and the sanctified; and they shall not any more see death.
88:117 - Therefore, verily I say unto you, my friends, call your solemn assembly, as I have commanded you.
88:118 - And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith.
88:119 - Organize yourselves; prepare every needful thing; and establish a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God;
88:120 - That your incomings may be in the name of the Lord; that your outgoings may be in the name of the Lord; that all your salutations may be in the name of the Lord, with uplifted hands unto the Most High.
88:121 - Therefore, cease from all your light speeches, from all laughter, from all your lustful desires, from all your pride and light-mindedness, and from all your wicked doings.
88:122 - Appoint among yourselves a teacher, and let not all be spokesmen at once; but let one speak at a time and let all listen unto his sayings, that when all have spoken that all may be edified of all, and that every man may have an equal privilege.
88:123 - See that ye love one another; cease to be covetous; learn to impart one to another as the gospel requires.
88:124 - Cease to be idle; cease to be unclean; cease to find fault one with another; cease to sleep longer than is needful; retire to thy bed early, that ye may not be weary; arise early, that your bodies and your minds may be invigorated.
88:125 - And above all things, clothe yourselves with the bond of charity, as with a mantle, which is the bond of perfectness and peace.
88:126 - Pray always, that ye may not faint, until I come. Behold, and lo, I will come quickly, and receive you unto myself. Amen.
88:127 - And again, the order of the house prepared for the presidency of the school of the prophets, established for their instruction in all things that are expedient for them, even for all the officers of the church, or in other words, those who are called to the ministry in the church, beginning at the high priests, even down to the deacons--
88:128 - And this shall be the order of the house of the presidency of the school: He that is appointed to be president, or teacher, shall be found standing in his place, in the house which shall be prepared for him.
88:129 - Therefore, he shall be first in the house of God, in a place that the congregation in the house may hear his words carefully and distinctly, not with loud speech.
88:130 - And when he cometh into the house of God, for he should be first in the house--behold, this is beautiful, that he may be an example--
88:131 - Let him offer himself in prayer upon his knees before God, in token or remembrance of the everlasting covenant.
88:132 - And when any shall come in after him, let the teacher arise, and, with uplifted hands to heaven, yea, even directly, salute his brother or brethren with these words:
88:133 - Art thou a brother or brethren? I salute you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, in token or remembrance of the everlasting covenant, in which covenant I receive you to fellowship, in a determination that is fixed, immovable, and unchangeable, to be your friend and brother through the grace of God in the bonds of love, to walk in all the commandments of God blameless, in thanksgiving, forever and ever. Amen.
88:134 - And he that is found unworthy of this salutation shall not have place among you; for ye shall not suffer that mine house shall be polluted by him.
88:135 - And he that cometh in and is faithful before me, and is a brother, or if they be brethren, they shall salute the president or teacher with uplifted hands to heaven, with this same prayer and covenant, or by saying Amen, in token of the same.
88:136 - Behold, verily, I say unto you, this is an ensample unto you for a salutation to one another in the house of God, in the school of the prophets.
88:137 - And ye are called to do this by prayer and thanksgiving, as the Spirit shall give utterance in all your doings in the house of the Lord, in the school of the prophets, that it may become a sanctuary, a tabernacle of the Holy Spirit to your edification.
88:138 - And ye shall not receive any among you into this school save he is clean from the blood of this generation;
88:139 - And he shall be received by the ordinance of the washing of feet, for unto this end was the ordinance of the washing of feet instituted.
88:140 - And again, the ordinance of washing feet is to be administered by the president, or presiding elder of the church.
88:141 - It is to be commenced with prayer; and after partaking of bread and wine, he is to gird himself according to the pattern given in the thirteenth chapter of John's testimony concerning me. Amen.
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People being disrespectful in holy space (whether it is holy to me or not) is one of my pet peeves. Drives me insane. Last year I got to travel a bit in Europe. I adore beautiful cathedrals and other churches and mosques, so tried to visit a lot of them. Most people would whisper and act respectfully, but some people… didn’t. I wanted to smack them. Once I gave a dirty look and shushed someone who was actually yelling to his friend to come over to him, but it didn’t do any good. He didn’t care that he was being a jerk.
I enjoy holy space in general and find it fascinating, but I have a more selfish reason for wanting people to treat those spaces respectfully: if enough people don’t, the beautiful cathedrals, etc., will be closed off to the public, and that would be terribly sad (though understandable).
Bryce:
Good points. I think on this from time to time. Here are some of the problems as I see it:
1.) Many are just profane, on both sides of the river. They don't care about others and don't consider other people as their brothers and sisters. They like to insult them. Or they just really don't care. People who are holy care about sacred things, that is the definition of holiness. Even if the other person is misguided, if something is holy to them, a decent person respects that.
2.) People often take disagreement as attack. We can love, honor and respect others and disagree with them. And they with us. This idea is often muddled in the minds of some. Many people demand consensus or they feel attacked. We can disagree, and at a minimum be civil.
3.) I like to intellectually mix it up with others from time to time. It helps me keep sharp, and perhaps enlighten someone else along the way. But, people need to learn how to do this within the bounds of propriety,
4.) If we are going to discuss these things, we can't be to thin skinned. It is hard to have a substantive debate on these things, with any amount of volume, and put everything into a flowery setting. Two people who can vigorously debate without being offended can really benefit each other. Those who are easily offended stifle real communication. If we can't say a murderer needs to repent, how can we ever discuss the finer points of the gospel?
These these are some of the things I have had to learn along the way, especially in the blog world.
-David
I’d suggest that the key isn’t so much to “hold sacred” what others consider sacred, as it is to hold other people as “sacred.”
For example, I am no longer LDS, and I no longer consider LDS garments to be “sacred.” At the same time, however, I’m well aware of the feelings of LDS members who do hold LDS garments as sacred. As such, I’m disgusted when I see that protesters outside Temple Square make a public show of attempting to “desecrate” LDS garments. Behavior like that only demonstrates that these people lack basic respect and compassion for their fellow beings–hardly a trait which encourages me to adopt their religious teachings.
Certainly. I don’t think we need to hold sacred that which others hold sacred, in a worship kind of way, but we should treat others and their sacred emblems, beliefs, and practices with respect and reverence. For example, I don’t personally hold Buddha as sacred, but I certainly wouldn’t profane Buddhism, demean a sacred Buddhist text, or desecrate a Buddhist temple. It’s just not a charitable and Christ-like thing to do.
A person’s regard for anything sacred can be determined by the way they treat the sacred things of others.
Krister Stendahl’s three rules of interfaith dialogue come into play here:
“let the other define herself (‘Don’t think you know the other without listening’);
compare equal to equal (not my positive qualities to the negative ones of the other);
and find beauty in the other so as to develop ‘holy envy.’”
http://www.hds.harvard.edu/news/article_archive/stendahl.html
Bishop Stendahl explains this beautifully in the “Between Heaven and Earth” video.
Great point. Stendahl’s rules can be seen in the “Between Heaven and Earth” video here:
http://www.templestudy.com/2008/03/09/between-heaven-and-earth-videoclips/
If Protestants had a secret ceremony where we called your bishops hirlings of Satan (much like former LDS ceremony), what would you think if I said it was too 'sacred' to talk about?
Aaron,
First, do you deny that such clerical hirlings exist in Christianity? Is this not priestcraft?
Second, our bishops are not hired. They are not paid a dime in their service in the Church.
Third, if Protestants had such a ceremony that they held sacred, and did not want to talk about, I would honor that belief. I would not profane it in the way you choose to do with ours. I would respect their right to worship in private the way they please, and not seek to “expose” their worship practices in the most desecrated manner (cf. A of F 11). That is just not a humane or Christian thing to do.
You know, this really becomes nothing more than hypocritical tripe when you consider that millions of Christians hold a very high regard for the creeds of their faith. Yet, I don't recall the LDS Church refraining from quoting the First Vision comment that calls them an abomination. Apostle Jeffrey Holland had no problem blasting the doctrine of the Trinity in conference recently. Millions of Christians hold these things very sacred. Anybody on this blog going to complain about that or are double standards OK here?
UtahRez,
Are there not many Christians that hold a very high regard for the LDS Church? I think there are. Some of our Evangelical brothers and sisters do not, however, and this is disturbing. But this is not just limited to Christianity, but also with regard to the sacred of all religions and cultures. How would you treat that which is holy in a Buddhist temple? Or a Muslim shrine? Or a Jewish synagogue?
Elder Holland’s address in Conference about the nature of God was not an attack on the Trinity, but a defense of our position as Christians. His point was that we can still be Christians and not believe in the orthodox view of the Trinity. A belief in the mainstream model of the Trinity is not a prerequisite to be a Christian, although our belief in the Godhead is similar to it. A belief in Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world is the prerequisite to be considered a Christian. Elder Holland made this very clear:
We do not refrain from believing that the LDS Church is the only true and living church upon the face of the earth (D&C 1:30), and that all other sects are in error. We believe that all of the sects of Christiandom have portions of the truth, and do many honorable and good things in service to their society and their communities and in bringing people closer to God. But even the Apostle Paul preached one faith and one baptism (Eph. 4:5). We do not seek to tear down other faiths, demean them, destroy their beliefs, desecrate all they hold holy, and profane their most sacred worship practices. This just is not a Christ-like thing to do. We teach and preach our own truths. We believe there is much good in other denominations, and we would like to add to it.
Bryce, I think you understand the spirit of the question. I’ll modify it to help bring clarity:
If Protestants had a secret ceremony where we called your prophet and apostles hirlings of Satan, what would you think if I said it was too 'sacred' to talk about?
By saying that you would choose to not to expose a ceremony that others hold as sacred, regardless of its content, you disobey scripture. If a ceremony is shameful, you have a biblical duty to expose it.
Was the Holy Spirit irresponsible in inspiring Paul to write this?
When people often tell me they wouldn’t have joined Mormonism if they had known what goes on in the temple, it only reinforces for me the fact that it is humane and Christian to help investigators make choices with more heplful information.
Aaron,
You didn’t answer my questions, but I will try to answer yours.
Again, our prophets and apostles are not hired. They are called to do the work. They receive no profit from what they do. They receive only a living stipend because they spend all their time preaching the gospel, but they are not spending their worth on the fine goods of the world. They do not deck themselves with spacious mansions or exquisite cars while dodging tax laws as some Christian preachers I know have done. Is not such self-aggrandizement priestcraft?
If Protestants had such a secret ceremony and believed that it was too sacred to talk about openly with others, I would respect that belief. Why would that affect me? They do it in secret. Why would I seek to desecrate their worship practices because of that? Sure, we would oppose it and disagree with that statement in their ceremony, but we would not desecrate all their beliefs in the public square because of it. It’s not a kind thing to do.
I’m not sure what translation of the Bible you use, but the King James Version reads:
The word translated as “reprove” is from the Greek elegcho, and can mean many different things including to convict, refute, confute, find fault with, correct, reprehend, chide, admonish, reprove, chasten, and punish. Some translations have chosen to translate it as “expose,” but the Greek was not translated thus anywhere in the KJV. Most often it was translated as reprove, rebuke, or convince. This rebuke is to be directed at the people doing the “works of darkness” not at the works themselves, “for it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.” How do you admonish or chasten a work? You can’t; you reprove those doing it. If you truly believe our ceremonies are works of darkness, then why are you speaking of them? Should it not be shameful for you to do so? Instead you seek to publicize our supposed “dark” practices, something which Paul clearly did not say but warned against. Paul was inspired to write this scripture, but your understanding of it is fundamentally flawed.
I know a great many more people, perhaps millions, who are members of the Church and believe the temple is the ultimate form of Christian worship, including myself.
Actually, if you wanted to be more accurate, it was a defense and an attack at the same time. He didn’t merely state a positive reason for what Mormons believe, he also stated an alleged negative reason why one shouldn’t believe what traditional Christians believe.
Holland is simply being passive-aggressive by prefacing with, “It is not our purpose to demean any person's belief nor the doctrine of any religion.” Saying that, and then attempting to tear down the notion of the Trinity, is still an attack.
Try saying this to your wife sometime: “Honey, I don’t mean to criticize your cooking, but I think this meal tastes like cardboard.” Do you think your preface really negates the fact that you’ve torn down and criticized her cooking?
Aaron
The only negative reason that could be gathered from Elder Holland’s address that one should not believe in orthodox Trinitarianism is because it does not appear true from the historical record. I don’t believe that is a horrendous attack. But it is a firm belief of ours that Christ has taught today, as He did during His mortal sojourn, that the Godhead consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, all separate and distinct beings, but all one in the same redemptive purpose and mission.
How should we treat those beliefs we have which do not agree with mainstream Christianity? Should we not teach our own doctrine? I believe we can do so and still respect each others beliefs, even if we do not agree with them.
“Bryce, then I guess its all about semantics. As long as a person says he means no foul, that is OK. It still offends nonetheless. Do you give the same latitude to Evangelicals who also claim the same thing? Don’t get me wrong, I am a firm supporter of free speech and I don’t think anyone has a right not to be offended. I just think the posters here are being a tad hypocricital. Call the Christian creeds an abomination if that is what you believe, but don’t whine when you find the sacred things of Mormonism being challenged. You ask, “How would you treat that which is holy in a Buddhist temple? Or a Muslim shrine? Or a Jewish synagogue?” I would certainly never desecrate their building or interupt their services, and in many ways I would tend to agree with Tanya when it comes to behavior in their buildings, but I don’t think anything religious is so sacred that a self imposed censorship should prevail. Ideologies need to be discussed and to say some things should be off the table because they tend to offend quite frankly offends me to the core; but hey, express your opinion to your hearts content, just don’t be hypocritical about it. You can say you don’t like it, but to say it is “unchristian” strikes many thinking people as nothing less than absurd. Christianity has been offending people since Jesus walked the earth.
UtahRez,
How easily we take offense these days. Can we not state our belief in the Godhead without people fearing we’ve “attacked” mainstream Christianity or “offended” anyone? Can we not have civil dialogue where we explain our differences of belief in order to understand one another better? Can we not let our emotions subside and not go on the offense whenever anyone says anything that is different than our personal beliefs? Can we not recognize our differences of opinion and grow together as a society instead of ripping each other apart and destroying one another’s faith?
You said, “but I don't think anything religious is so sacred that a self imposed censorship should prevail.” Then I don’t believe you know what sacred means, for if you personally held anything sacred, you would not want it blasted into the public scene. Not desecrating a Buddhist temple or interrupting a Muslim service means that you hold a certain amount of respect for that thing which others believe is sacred. Yes, ideologies do need to be discussed, but even scholars recognize that there are lines of propriety that are not to be crossed when analyzing anything that someone else holds in the most sublime holiness. It is called goodwill, a conscience, loving thy neighbor, grace, and charity, traits that come naturally to most people for we are all born into this world with the light of Christ (John 1:9).
Even Christ himself told his disciples to not tell others of certain sacred teachings and practices (Matt. 8:4; Matt. 16:20; Matt. 17:9; Mark 7:36; Mark 8:30; Mark 9:9; Luke 5:14; Luke 8:56; Luke 9:21). Holding certain things sacred seems very Christian to me.
So you guys believe you have the divine prerogative like Jesus to withhold information from people about life and salvation and things that help a person have a better relationship with God?
If that’s not arrogant, I don’t know what is. I’ll stick with Deuteronomy 29:29:
“The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.”
No. We have the divine prerogative from Jesus, just as His disciples did of old, to keep those things sacred that He has entrusted to us to keep sacred. Anyone who is willing and worthy can also partake of these sacred things, if they prepare themselves according to the commandments of God (Matt. 7:6).
Can’t you see the utter hypocrisy of this? Mormon missionaries go to the doors of my fellow Christians every day and attempt to replace nearly all their distinctive beliefs. Our belief in the Trinity is ripped apart, our belief in justification by faith alone is ripped apart, our belief in the obsoleteness of the Aaronic priesthood is ripped apart, our belief in the reliability of the Bible is ripped apart. All those things are sacred to us and yet your missionaries attempt to replace them with things we find heretical and abhorrent and profane. Sure, the missionaries do it with a soft voice and a smile, but it is what it is.
If you want to stop ripping apart Protestant teachings, then stop sending missionaries out to teach of the “Great Apostasy” and of the “Restoration” which calls all our creeds an “abomination”.
Listen, I have Mormon friends that get along with me, but few things are more offensive and disrespectful than a passive-aggressive, hypocritical view of religious criticism. I liked Mormonism better in the days when political correctness wasn’t a beloved golden calf. Just put your claims and criticisms out on the open table and stop pretending to take a supposed moral high ground. The Mormon friends I have who I best get along with, who I best know as honest, forthright, and respectful, put all their cards out on the table.
Aaron,
No. I don’t see hypocrisy in this. Paul taught that the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance (Gal. 5:22-23). We try to emulate those good fruits. Yes, we send out missionaries to teach the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, but we do it with the Spirit. If people don’t like it, they can politely refuse our message and we will be on our way. I know, I experienced it many times on my own mission. We don’t ever cram our beliefs down others’ throats, or rip apart others’ faith in the process. That is not what Christ has counseled us to do. There may be missionaries that try to do that, but I wouldn’t, and I think the majority of missionaries don’t do that. It serves no purpose, whatsoever. If you don’t like what we teach, then we will thank you and move on. That is much different than the force-feeding you’re expressing, where we “replace” teachings that people find “heretical” and “abhorrent” and “profane.” I don’t know of anyone who would sit through a discussion with the missionaries if they truly had that view.
I might add that all there is that separates us is “distinctive beliefs.” We all believe in the same basics of Christianity, namely in Jesus Christ, that He is the Savior of the world, that He atoned for our sins, that we can repent of our sins and be forgiven, that He died on the cross for us, was resurrected on the third day, and ascended into heaven with a promise of return to rule and reign. These are not the beliefs that differentiate us. We tend to make mountains out of mole hills.
Also, I don’t think your fellow Christians would have any objection to a belief in the Aaronic priesthood, since they probably haven’t heard of it before, again from experience on my mission. Only certain of our critics believe in the “obsoleteness of the Aaronic priesthood.”
Who are your Mormon friends? I’d like to get to know them.
I believe in free speech, and think that it is good to know things up front. It just appears that we are comparing apples to oranges here. I don’t know if there is anything that Aaron holds sacred enough that he would not like disclosed. It’s not my position to speak on his behalf and so won’t presume to do so. Until he has something like the temple ordinances that he holds sacred enough, I don’t think that there will be an understanding.
As a follow up point, I have great respect for Muslims and for Muhammad. Some of my best friends are Muslims and I enjoy going to mosques. That doesn’t mean that I can’t think that it is not true nor speak about why I think it is wrong. I think that it is a matter of showing respect when doing it, that’s all.
But again, until there is something that outsider’s have in comparison, I don’t know if there will be an understanding. I think a muslim would understand the idea better as Mecca serves a similar function.
Bryce, I see you missed my point entirely. You wrote:
“Can we not let our emotions subside and not go on the offense whenever anyone says anything that is different than our personal beliefs? ”
Can you? Can other Mormons? Latter-day Saints tend to allow themselves the right to complain when people challenge their “sacred space,” but always find a way to justify themselves when they invade another's. Again, don't misunderstand. I am defending wholeheartedly your right to invade, complain, and critique. I am not offended at all by that aspect. My personal beliefs are not so frail that I feel the need to silence those who do not share my worldview. What offends me personally is when a Mormon (or any religious person), publicly makes truth-claims and then cries foul when a person or persons with an opposing view challenges them on their position. Perhaps you can explain how a person who finds the endowment ceremony to be extremely troubling should express those feelings.
UtahRez,
Addressing doctrinal distinctions in belief is a colossal leap from defaming and desecrating what others hold sacred. They are not nearly on the same plane in interfaith dialogue, if you can even call the latter such. But it does not surprise me that you would equate them since it seems as though you don’t believe in anything as sacred as we do the temple, so it is hard for you to imagine the difference. I’m sorry that this is so. I believe that you probably do have very many things in your life that you hold very sacred, but you probably don’t recognize them – e.g. your family, your relationships, your scriptures, your home, your property, your freedom, etc. I believe you would be quite disturbed if any of those things in your life were suddenly and rudely profaned, defamed, desecrated, and exposed to public use and scrutiny. You don’t try to challenge us on opposing views but you attempt to lay bare the holy vessels of the Lord. That is not dialogue or critique or debate; it is careless libel and selfish aspersion.
How would a person express their feelings who finds the endowment ceremony troubling? I think that would depend on if they are a member of the Church or not. If not, I’m not sure why something that we do in the sacred seclusion and confines of the temple should disturb such a person at all since they don’t participate in it, and it in no way affects their way of life or beliefs. If it truly disturbs such a person, a careful inventory and analysis of how external influences affect their life might be in order. If they are a member of the Church, then I believe an education in the history of temples since the beginning of time might be good counsel, since such worship practices, rituals, and liturgies have been in existence since the world began. The Lord’s ways are not our ways (Isa. 55:8-9). The things of God and His temples are not the way of the world, and are starkly in contrast with mundane trivialities. This could potentially strike new temple-goers as odd or different. But such ceremonies have always stood out in distinctiveness from the rest of the world. The earliest Christian initiations were likewise extraordinary, and for a divine purpose. Edward Yarnold, a research lecturer at Oxford University, has written about the early Christian liturgy thus:
Prayerful and scriptural introspection and study would be valuable to any temple-going Latter-day Saint to consider to know if the temple is really the Lord’s House. Discussion with a bishop, teacher, friend, or family member about such feelings might also help. Generally, the more one knows the ways of the Lord, the more the temple fits perfectly into His model of the eternities and the more one recognizes the profound blessing it is to worship and serve in the temple.
This thread has been enlightening, and further evidence of the original point of my post. Thanks to all.
I re-submit my earlier comment:
A missionary at a door offering his religion is not “ripping ” anything that person has. And as a “Christian ” how could we avoid the great commission to preach to the world? The JW’s visit my home on a regular basis; I don’t feel they are ripping anything I believe; I am still intact when they go. People have become way too thinned skinned.
-David