<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Oh Say, What Is Truth?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/31/oh-say-what-is-truth/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/31/oh-say-what-is-truth/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=oh-say-what-is-truth</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:33:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cynthia</title>
		<link>http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/31/oh-say-what-is-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-1652</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynthia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.templestudy.com/?p=567#comment-1652</guid>
		<description>I believe the prophets and apostles have also said that we do NOT have all truth at the present time, that more will be revealed--and certainly that is a fact.  The human species, I believe, is not capable at this point of comprehending the smallest bit of  the absolute truth that the Lord has.  We might get glimpses and small flashes of insight but &quot;truth&quot; is what is, and was, and is to be.

I do believe that the Lord, in his mercy, has given us the commandments because we are so in the dark.  His prophets, when speaking as prophets, guide us as to behavior that will assist us in our earthly pilgrimage.  The words of the Lord are the &quot;iron rod&quot; we are to hold to.   We are in a fallen and dark world where human intention and problems infect all sorts of communication--and no one is totally above it.

So whenever a human being says anything--even good things--we are told to go to the Lord himself and ask for guidance.    Agreed?  I don&#039;t think the Lord is monolithic or He wouldn&#039;t have asked us to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the prophets and apostles have also said that we do NOT have all truth at the present time, that more will be revealed&#8211;and certainly that is a fact.  The human species, I believe, is not capable at this point of comprehending the smallest bit of  the absolute truth that the Lord has.  We might get glimpses and small flashes of insight but &#8220;truth&#8221; is what is, and was, and is to be.</p>
<p>I do believe that the Lord, in his mercy, has given us the commandments because we are so in the dark.  His prophets, when speaking as prophets, guide us as to behavior that will assist us in our earthly pilgrimage.  The words of the Lord are the &#8220;iron rod&#8221; we are to hold to.   We are in a fallen and dark world where human intention and problems infect all sorts of communication&#8211;and no one is totally above it.</p>
<p>So whenever a human being says anything&#8211;even good things&#8211;we are told to go to the Lord himself and ask for guidance.    Agreed?  I don&#8217;t think the Lord is monolithic or He wouldn&#8217;t have asked us to do that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryce Haymond</title>
		<link>http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/31/oh-say-what-is-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-1651</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryce Haymond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 02:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.templestudy.com/?p=567#comment-1651</guid>
		<description>TT said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;The only question is what does &#039;truth&#039; mean, a point that your post promises but does not deliver.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

How much more do the prophets and apostles of the Church have to say for TT to understand what &quot;truth&quot; means?  Saying that the Brethren have not expounded quite clearly what &quot;truth&quot; means in these many statements is being quite blind, and I&#039;m not going to be shy in saying it.  It&#039;s not that TT didn&#039;t read or interpret the quotes like I did; it doesn&#039;t look like he read them at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TT said:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>&#8220;The only question is what does &#8216;truth&#8217; mean, a point that your post promises but does not deliver.&#8221;</i></p></blockquote>
<p>How much more do the prophets and apostles of the Church have to say for TT to understand what &#8220;truth&#8221; means?  Saying that the Brethren have not expounded quite clearly what &#8220;truth&#8221; means in these many statements is being quite blind, and I&#8217;m not going to be shy in saying it.  It&#8217;s not that TT didn&#8217;t read or interpret the quotes like I did; it doesn&#8217;t look like he read them at all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cynthia</title>
		<link>http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/31/oh-say-what-is-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-1648</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynthia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.templestudy.com/?p=567#comment-1648</guid>
		<description>Bryce, calling TT &quot;blind&quot; because he doesn&#039;t read or interpret quotes like you do is quite chilling to honest inquiry.  I understand that you are an apologist, but please, keep the sanctimoniousness out of the responses.  

The &quot;true&quot; church expression, I believe, began to be seriously expounded when the early church spread to the 4 winds after the death of Joseph Smith.  Brigham and the Saints who followed him stated almost continually that theirs was the &quot;true&quot; church (meaning, the church that claimed the mantle of Joseph)....as opposed to those who stayed with other apostles in Illinois or Texas or Michigan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryce, calling TT &#8220;blind&#8221; because he doesn&#8217;t read or interpret quotes like you do is quite chilling to honest inquiry.  I understand that you are an apologist, but please, keep the sanctimoniousness out of the responses.  </p>
<p>The &#8220;true&#8221; church expression, I believe, began to be seriously expounded when the early church spread to the 4 winds after the death of Joseph Smith.  Brigham and the Saints who followed him stated almost continually that theirs was the &#8220;true&#8221; church (meaning, the church that claimed the mantle of Joseph)&#8230;.as opposed to those who stayed with other apostles in Illinois or Texas or Michigan.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryce Haymond</title>
		<link>http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/31/oh-say-what-is-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-1450</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryce Haymond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.templestudy.com/?p=567#comment-1450</guid>
		<description>TT,

If you do not think that the prophets have defined what truth means here, in direct quotations I have listed at length, then you are truly blind.  In the gospel, we understand truth by the standards of the gospel, only, and &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; by anything the world might present.  President Benson said, &quot;The gospel encompasses &lt;b&gt;all&lt;/b&gt; truth.&quot;  The Church is true in &lt;b&gt;every&lt;/b&gt; sense of the word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TT,</p>
<p>If you do not think that the prophets have defined what truth means here, in direct quotations I have listed at length, then you are truly blind.  In the gospel, we understand truth by the standards of the gospel, only, and <b>not</b> by anything the world might present.  President Benson said, &#8220;The gospel encompasses <b>all</b> truth.&#8221;  The Church is true in <b>every</b> sense of the word.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TT</title>
		<link>http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/31/oh-say-what-is-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-1444</link>
		<dc:creator>TT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.templestudy.com/?p=567#comment-1444</guid>
		<description>Bryce,
If I may, I think I can clear up some of your confusion about the criticisms offered here.  The question is not, and never has been, whether or not the church is &quot;true.&quot;  That has been conceded by all.  The only question is what does &quot;truth&quot; mean, a point that your post promises but does not deliver.  As the Richardson quote indicates, there is a technical vocabulary in different fields.  Each field has one, such as science, law, medicine, etc.  The standards by which &quot;truth&quot; is understood in each of these disciplines is different.  The same is said of philosophy and literature.  For instance, to say that a poem speaks the truth about love, or fear, or paranoia is not the same as saying that gravity, or evolution, or global warming are scientifically true.  So, the question is in what sense the church is true, or with respect to what, and the attempts by some here to use synonyms of truth to express the need to define truth is in no way an attempt to argue that the church is not in fact true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryce,<br />
If I may, I think I can clear up some of your confusion about the criticisms offered here.  The question is not, and never has been, whether or not the church is &#8220;true.&#8221;  That has been conceded by all.  The only question is what does &#8220;truth&#8221; mean, a point that your post promises but does not deliver.  As the Richardson quote indicates, there is a technical vocabulary in different fields.  Each field has one, such as science, law, medicine, etc.  The standards by which &#8220;truth&#8221; is understood in each of these disciplines is different.  The same is said of philosophy and literature.  For instance, to say that a poem speaks the truth about love, or fear, or paranoia is not the same as saying that gravity, or evolution, or global warming are scientifically true.  So, the question is in what sense the church is true, or with respect to what, and the attempts by some here to use synonyms of truth to express the need to define truth is in no way an attempt to argue that the church is not in fact true.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryce Haymond</title>
		<link>http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/31/oh-say-what-is-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-1442</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryce Haymond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.templestudy.com/?p=567#comment-1442</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://gospelink.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;GospeLink&lt;/a&gt;.  It&#039;s fantastic.  Completely redesigned for 2008.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://gospelink.com/" rel="nofollow">GospeLink</a>.  It&#8217;s fantastic.  Completely redesigned for 2008.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TT</title>
		<link>http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/31/oh-say-what-is-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-1441</link>
		<dc:creator>TT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.templestudy.com/?p=567#comment-1441</guid>
		<description>This is a sidenote, but an honest question: Where do you generate your quotes?  I haven&#039;t kept up on the LDS software market since Infobase 10 years ago.  What are you using and do you like it?  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a sidenote, but an honest question: Where do you generate your quotes?  I haven&#8217;t kept up on the LDS software market since Infobase 10 years ago.  What are you using and do you like it?  Thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryce Haymond</title>
		<link>http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/31/oh-say-what-is-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-1440</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryce Haymond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.templestudy.com/?p=567#comment-1440</guid>
		<description>I disagree Mogget.  And your sarcasm is showing.

If not one of the Brethren has &lt;b&gt;ever&lt;/b&gt; used the term &quot;authentic&quot; as an adjectival modifier to describe the Church, in place of &quot;the true church,&quot; then I believe it heresy to use it.  Period.  Doing so is just mystifying the point.  &quot;The true church&quot; is the expression that is generally known and used.  Are we holding to the iron rod, or wandering into mists of darkness?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree Mogget.  And your sarcasm is showing.</p>
<p>If not one of the Brethren has <b>ever</b> used the term &#8220;authentic&#8221; as an adjectival modifier to describe the Church, in place of &#8220;the true church,&#8221; then I believe it heresy to use it.  Period.  Doing so is just mystifying the point.  &#8220;The true church&#8221; is the expression that is generally known and used.  Are we holding to the iron rod, or wandering into mists of darkness?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mogget</title>
		<link>http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/31/oh-say-what-is-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-1439</link>
		<dc:creator>Mogget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.templestudy.com/?p=567#comment-1439</guid>
		<description>Hi Bryce,

Love the quotation from President Richards!  Couldn&#039;t agree more!  I NEVER let students use  technical vocabulary without some attempt at understanding.  One of the words they struggle a lot with is &quot;truth.&quot;  They tend to cite various authors on truth without analyzing what those authors are actually saying about truth.  But &quot;I agree with Professor X&quot; does not an argument, or an analysis make, no?

So I concur, it&#039;s important to define the words we use.  For example, I think the best way to get at the question of whether or not &quot;the true church&quot; might be adequately or profitably expressed as &quot;the authentic church&quot; in some contexts probably rides on the overlap between &quot;true&quot; and &quot;authentic&quot;  in those contexts.  Although church leaders seem to have used the former expression more often than the latter this does not mean, as you correctly note, that we must invariably use the former when we talk about our exclusiveness.

Mogs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bryce,</p>
<p>Love the quotation from President Richards!  Couldn&#8217;t agree more!  I NEVER let students use  technical vocabulary without some attempt at understanding.  One of the words they struggle a lot with is &#8220;truth.&#8221;  They tend to cite various authors on truth without analyzing what those authors are actually saying about truth.  But &#8220;I agree with Professor X&#8221; does not an argument, or an analysis make, no?</p>
<p>So I concur, it&#8217;s important to define the words we use.  For example, I think the best way to get at the question of whether or not &#8220;the true church&#8221; might be adequately or profitably expressed as &#8220;the authentic church&#8221; in some contexts probably rides on the overlap between &#8220;true&#8221; and &#8220;authentic&#8221;  in those contexts.  Although church leaders seem to have used the former expression more often than the latter this does not mean, as you correctly note, that we must invariably use the former when we talk about our exclusiveness.</p>
<p>Mogs</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryce Haymond</title>
		<link>http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/31/oh-say-what-is-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-1438</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryce Haymond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 03:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.templestudy.com/?p=567#comment-1438</guid>
		<description>Just for the record, I never said we need to repeat the Brethren verbatim, but, yes, they have set the example for us.  Pay particularly close attention to President Stephen L. Richards comments:

&lt;blockquote&gt;At this point I wish to submit a caution to teachers, particularly those within our Church. I deem it to be regrettable that academic practice not infrequently seems to dictate terminology and types of expression and explanation which often confuse more than they clarify and expound. There are those who apparently regard it as a mark of scholarly attainment to be able to mystify others. I don’t. I look upon clear explanations as the expressions of clear thinking and a high order of intelligence. In religious teaching I believe in calling principles, concepts, and practices by the name by which they are generally known. God and the devil, holiness and sin, faith and apostasy are better understood and have more significance when designated by their right names than when disguised and camouflaged in terminology that not even all the professors can understand.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for the record, I never said we need to repeat the Brethren verbatim, but, yes, they have set the example for us.  Pay particularly close attention to President Stephen L. Richards comments:</p>
<blockquote><p>At this point I wish to submit a caution to teachers, particularly those within our Church. I deem it to be regrettable that academic practice not infrequently seems to dictate terminology and types of expression and explanation which often confuse more than they clarify and expound. There are those who apparently regard it as a mark of scholarly attainment to be able to mystify others. I don't. I look upon clear explanations as the expressions of clear thinking and a high order of intelligence. In religious teaching I believe in calling principles, concepts, and practices by the name by which they are generally known. God and the devil, holiness and sin, faith and apostasy are better understood and have more significance when designated by their right names than when disguised and camouflaged in terminology that not even all the professors can understand.</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

