Comments on: Elder Maxwell Comments on Proposition 8… 30 Years Ago

By: Ryan Lanier

Ryan Lanier — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:19:04 +0000

Ultimately, the only threat to this Church is from within and not from without. External forces cannot destroy it, be they politics, governments, or other religious denominations. What led to the apostasy in the meridian of times is that wolves dressed in sheeps clothing crept in, diluted the doctrine, changed the ordinances, and didn’t follow the prophets. We are fortunate to live in the latter days when the promise is that the Church will not be led into apostasy again, but rather will succeed in bearing off the kingdom.

Perhaps the most important message that Elder Maxwell offers is that clarity of standing with the prophet. The prophet is one who sees things that we cannot see. While this may appear to be a grey matter to many LDS, it appears to be not so grey to those who hold the keys. And we can take comfort with the Lord’s admonition in D&C 21:5: “For his word shall ye receive as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.” It will take patience and faith to stand with President Monson at times. If we keep our eye on the president of the Church, we will never be led astray. That is the Lord’s promise to us as LDS.

By: Andrew Miller

Andrew Miller — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:03:13 +0000

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. There is safety in and only in following those who hold the keys.

By: CJ Douglass

CJ Douglass — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:53:24 +0000

I often think about his talk when the religious/secular debate comes up. And I think Maxwell makes some great points.

The problem I see with the talk is that it brushes over the debate in terms of black and white when the issue is much more complex.

I think a fair questions could be asked, which is a greater threat to Mormonism – secularism or evangelical Christianity? That same question could be asked about Judaism or Islam or many other religions. The answer is debatable.

What I really want to know – is Elder Maxwell using the word "religion" to describe the Restored Church of Christ? Christianity in general? All religions?

Now days, it seems the answer would be "all religions". President Hinckley did a pretty good job of getting that message into our thick skulls. But the mistake we make is assuming our Christian brothers and sisters feel the same way.

Remember – their fight is not for religious tolerance – but for Christianity to be the state religion. That does in no way benefit Mormons or any other religion. This is a mistake we are still making. We are not one of them. We are not on the same team. Let's stop trying to be.

By: Cynthia

Cynthia — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 14:20:08 +0000

Does anyone else have the belief (as I do) that if Romney had not prematurely pulled out of the pre-Convention race, he would have been a stronger opponent of Obama than McCain? I think that McCain’s age and personality were detrimental–and that Obama won simply because there was no good choice. I think the Evangelicals would have supported Romney against Obama…as would the Catholics and many others.

Of course, the President elect now has the unenviable task of starting his presidency in a period of economic collapse, social incivility and violence, and rampant government growth which looks more like socialism every day. Perhaps Romney was wise.

By: Bryce Haymond

Bryce Haymond — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:10:42 +0000

Why would it have killed Romney? You are saying that our Church’s standing up for moral values through the political system would have lost Romney’s chances for the presidency if he had been nominated by the Republican party. I disagree with that viewpoint. Many people greatly appreciated the Church’s role in Prop 8, and we made many more friends with other religions because of it. It showed many people that Mormons are serious about good morals in our society. A Mormon does not have to separate himself/herself from the Church in order to run for political office. Romney made that point too. The Church will continue to stand for moral values in our nation regardless if there is a Mormon running for office, and I don’t think it will ruin their chances. It may in fact help them. Romney is opposed to same sex marriage, as he has stated on many occasions in the past, and so it is not hard to imagine his position on Prop 8, even before the Church said anything. In fact, in 2003 as governor he lobbied for a similar state constitutional amendment that would ban same sex marriage in Massachusetts.

By: Brad Kramer

Brad Kramer — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:37:01 +0000

I’m not contending with anything you’re saying here, Bryce. And I know you get what I’m saying. Church members in CA mobilized and donated money and phone banked and canvassed for more reasons than their political preferences were informed by the general moral influence of their religion. If Romney had the nomination and the Church conducted the campaign in CA exactly the way it did, Prop 8 would have killed Romney. The fact that, even while campaigning for various conservative causes around the country, Romney stayed out of CA and the Prop 8 discussion shows that he still hopes for a future in national politics. His involvement in CA would have ruined any chance of that.

By: Bryce Haymond

Bryce Haymond — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:28:03 +0000

I think what is more inconsistent is to think that anyone, whether evangelical or atheist or any other persuasion, isn’t going to be influenced by the ideologies which surround them. Of course a Mormon president would be influenced by his religion. A Catholic president would be influenced by Catholicism. A Baptist by their church. A Muslim by their tradition. Even an atheist is influenced by their non-belief in God which is a religion of itself. We are in large measure what our environment makes of us, and we shouldn’t be ashamed having been influenced by the Church in the development of our character or moral beliefs. That’s what the Church is for. No one can stand completely independent or objective of their community and society. Indeed, who would want such a president? The Church has been recognized as having some of the highest standards and values of any organization on earth, and as such is respected by many. That is probably a large part of what helped Romney (and others) get to the political positions they have. It’s not a detriment to be influenced by the Church. Quite the contrary.

By: Brad Kramer

Brad Kramer — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:27:29 +0000

I agree that the overall message of the talk is that taking political position based upon religiously informed moral convictions will become increasingly out of vogue in the future. Prophetic indeed. The concern that drove my comments was derived from a particular passage:

President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had ‘never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life’ (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ.

Not coincidentally, this passage was included in Yes-On-8 email that circulated virally among LDS inside and outside of CA (I personally received it 5 or 6 times in the week before the election), as an admonition that people should support this for one reason and one reason only: the Brethren had spoken. I’m not arguing that that is an out of line position for anyone to take. Just that it’s inconsistent to take it and simultaneously take umbrage at the fact that evangelicals and atheists don’t think the commonwealth should trust a Mormon president.

By: Kristy

Kristy — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:52:44 +0000

Hey – I’m so concerned about this and found that the events in 3 Nephi in the Book of Mormon (before the First Coming of the Savior) are a parallel to the events that will transpire before the Second Coming of the Savior.

The church will once again endure persecution. The Righteous will be separated from the Wicked.

Every Mormon is closely watching the events with heavy hearts.

I love this article you shared.

Thanks

By: Brad

Brad — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:09:09 +0000

There are many issues that are political and not moral. Whether or not we pay 5.25% sales tax or 5.26% is not a moral issue, but a political one. How people get health care is not a moral issue, it is political. (notice I said how, not if)

Of course Romney’s LDS faith would affect his decisions. I’m sure his belief in a living prophet would also inform his decisions. Several presidents have openly practice religion, even going to church in front of the nation. Does this mean they are beholden to their preacher for how to run the country? Of course not, even if they are taking spiritual and emotional direction from the man.

I took Romney’s stance as ‘I am not going to call Salt Lake and ask them how to run the country.’ (his words not mine) As he said, “Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions. ”

When it comes to moral issues, and what is right and wrong in an eternal sense, the living prophet on the earth has the final say. That is what LDS members raise their hand to sustain during General Conference. He is the prophet, seer, and revelator for the church in all matters, and especially in moral matters.