Doctrine and Covenants
88:1 - VERILY, thus saith the Lord unto you who have assembled yourselves together to receive his will concerning you:
88:2 - Behold, this is pleasing unto your Lord, and the angels rejoice over you; the alms of your prayers have come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, and are recorded in the book of the names of the sanctified, even them of the celestial world.
88:3 - Wherefore, I now send upon you another Comforter, even upon you my friends, that it may abide in your hearts, even the Holy Spirit of promise; which other Comforter is the same that I promised unto my disciples, as is recorded in the testimony of John.
88:4 - This Comforter is the promise which I give unto you of eternal life, even the glory of the celestial kingdom;
88:5 - Which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God, the holiest of all, through Jesus Christ his Son--
88:6 - He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth;
88:7 - Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.
88:8 - As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made;
88:9 - As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made;
88:10 - And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand.
88:11 - And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;
88:12 - Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space--
88:13 - The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.
88:14 - Now, verily I say unto you, that through the redemption which is made for you is brought to pass the resurrection from the dead.
88:15 - And the spirit and the body are the soul of man.
88:16 - And the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul.
88:17 - And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.
88:18 - Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory;
88:19 - For after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father;
88:20 - That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever; for, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified.
88:21 - And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom.
88:22 - For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.
88:23 - And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.
88:24 - And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory.
88:25 - And again, verily I say unto you, the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresseth not the law--
88:26 - Wherefore, it shall be sanctified; yea, notwithstanding it shall die, it shall be quickened again, and shall abide the power by which it is quickened, and the righteous shall inherit it.
88:27 - For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
88:28 - They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
88:29 - Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
88:30 - And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
88:31 - And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
88:32 - And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.
88:33 - For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift.
88:34 - And again, verily I say unto you, that which is governed by law is also preserved by law and perfected and sanctified by the same.
88:35 - That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.
88:36 - All kingdoms have a law given;
88:37 - And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.
88:38 - And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.
88:39 - All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.
88:40 - For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; light cleaveth unto light; mercy hath compassion on mercy and claimeth her own; justice continueth its course and claimeth its own; judgment goeth before the face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth all things.
88:41 - He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.
88:42 - And again, verily I say unto you, he hath given a law unto all things, by which they move in their times and their seasons;
88:43 - And their courses are fixed, even the courses of the heavens and the earth, which comprehend the earth and all the planets.
88:44 - And they give light to each other in their times and in their seasons, in their minutes, in their hours, in their days, in their weeks, in their months, in their years--all these are one year with God, but not with man.
88:45 - The earth rolls upon her wings, and the sun giveth his light by day, and the moon giveth her light by night, and the stars also give their light, as they roll upon their wings in their glory, in the midst of the power of God.
88:46 - Unto what shall I liken these kingdoms, that ye may understand?
88:47 - Behold, all these are kingdoms, and any man who hath seen any or the least of these hath seen God moving in his majesty and power.
88:48 - I say unto you, he hath seen him; nevertheless, he who came unto his own was not comprehended.
88:49 - The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall comprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him.
88:50 - Then shall ye know that ye have seen me, that I am, and that I am the true light that is in you, and that you are in me; otherwise ye could not abound.
88:51 - Behold, I will liken these kingdoms unto a man having a field, and he sent forth his servants into the field to dig in the field.
88:52 - And he said unto the first: Go ye and labor in the field, and in the first hour I will come unto you, and ye shall behold the joy of my countenance.
88:53 - And he said unto the second: Go ye also into the field, and in the second hour I will visit you with the joy of my countenance.
88:54 - And also unto the third, saying: I will visit you;
88:55 - And unto the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth.
88:56 - And the lord of the field went unto the first in the first hour, and tarried with him all that hour, and he was made glad with the light of the countenance of his lord.
88:57 - And then he withdrew from the first that he might visit the second also, and the third, and the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth.
88:58 - And thus they all received the light of the countenance of their lord, every man in his hour, and in his time, and in his season--
88:59 - Beginning at the first, and so on unto the last, and from the last unto the first, and from the first unto the last;
88:60 - Every man in his own order, until his hour was finished, even according as his lord had commanded him, that his lord might be glorified in him, and he in his lord, that they all might be glorified.
88:61 - Therefore, unto this parable I will liken all these kingdoms, and the inhabitants thereof--every kingdom in its hour, and in its time, and in its season, even according to the decree which God hath made.
88:62 - And again, verily I say unto you, my friends, I leave these sayings with you to ponder in your hearts, with this commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall call upon me while I am near--
88:63 - Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you; seek me diligently and ye shall find me; ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
88:64 - Whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is expedient for you;
88:65 - And if ye ask anything that is not expedient for you, it shall turn unto your condemnation.
88:66 - Behold, that which you hear is as the voice of one crying in the wilderness--in the wilderness, because you cannot see him--my voice, because my voice is Spirit; my Spirit is truth; truth abideth and hath no end; and if it be in you it shall abound.
88:67 - And if your eye be single to my glory, your whole bodies shall be filled with light, and there shall be no darkness in you; and that body which is filled with light comprehendeth all things.
88:68 - Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.
88:69 - Remember the great and last promise which I have made unto you; cast away your idle thoughts and your excess of laughter far from you.
88:70 - Tarry ye, tarry ye in this place, and call a solemn assembly, even of those who are the first laborers in this last kingdom.
88:71 - And let those whom they have warned in their traveling call on the Lord, and ponder the warning in their hearts which they have received, for a little season.
88:72 - Behold, and lo, I will take care of your flocks, and will raise up elders and send unto them.
88:73 - Behold, I will hasten my work in its time.
88:74 - And I give unto you, who are the first laborers in this last kingdom, a commandment that you assemble yourselves together, and organize yourselves, and prepare yourselves, and sanctify yourselves; yea, purify your hearts, and cleanse your hands and your feet before me, that I may make you clean;
88:75 - That I may testify unto your Father, and your God, and my God, that you are clean from the blood of this wicked generation; that I may fulfil this promise, this great and last promise, which I have made unto you, when I will.
88:76 - Also, I give unto you a commandment that ye shall continue in prayer and fasting from this time forth.
88:77 - And I give unto you a commandment that you shall teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom.
88:78 - Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand;
88:79 - Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms--
88:80 - That ye may be prepared in all things when I shall send you again to magnify the calling whereunto I have called you, and the mission with which I have commissioned you.
88:81 - Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.
88:82 - Therefore, they are left without excuse, and their sins are upon their own heads.
88:83 - He that seeketh me early shall find me, and shall not be forsaken.
88:84 - Therefore, tarry ye, and labor diligently, that you may be perfected in your ministry to go forth among the Gentiles for the last time, as many as the mouth of the Lord shall name, to bind up the law and seal up the testimony, and to prepare the saints for the hour of judgment which is to come;
88:85 - That their souls may escape the wrath of God, the desolation of abomination which awaits the wicked, both in this world and in the world to come. Verily, I say unto you, let those who are not the first elders continue in the vineyard until the mouth of the Lord shall call them, for their time is not yet come; their garments are not clean from the blood of this generation.
88:86 - Abide ye in the liberty wherewith ye are made free; entangle not yourselves in sin, but let your hands be clean, until the Lord comes.
88:87 - For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree.
88:88 - And after your testimony cometh wrath and indignation upon the people.
88:89 - For after your testimony cometh the testimony of earthquakes, that shall cause groanings in the midst of her, and men shall fall upon the ground and shall not be able to stand.
88:90 - And also cometh the testimony of the voice of thunderings, and the voice of lightnings, and the voice of tempests, and the voice of the waves of the sea heaving themselves beyond their bounds.
88:91 - And all things shall be in commotion; and surely, men's hearts shall fail them; for fear shall come upon all people.
88:92 - And angels shall fly through the midst of heaven, crying with a loud voice, sounding the trump of God, saying: Prepare ye, prepare ye, O inhabitants of the earth; for the judgment of our God is come. Behold, and lo, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
88:93 - And immediately there shall appear a great sign in heaven, and all people shall see it together.
88:94 - And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood--she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea--behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.
88:95 - And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;
88:96 - And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him.
88:97 - And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth, for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven--
88:98 - They are Christ's, the first fruits, they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him; and all this by the voice of the sounding of the trump of the angel of God.
88:99 - And after this another angel shall sound, which is the second trump; and then cometh the redemption of those who are Christ's at his coming; who have received their part in that prison which is prepared for them, that they might receive the gospel, and be judged according to men in the flesh.
88:100 - And again, another trump shall sound, which is the third trump; and then come the spirits of men who are to be judged, and are found under condemnation;
88:101 - And these are the rest of the dead; and they live not again until the thousand years are ended, neither again, until the end of the earth.
88:102 - And another trump shall sound, which is the fourth trump, saying: There are found among those who are to remain until that great and last day, even the end, who shall remain filthy still.
88:103 - And another trump shall sound, which is the fifth trump, which is the fifth angel who committeth the everlasting gospel--flying through the midst of heaven, unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people;
88:104 - And this shall be the sound of his trump, saying to all people, both in heaven and in earth, and that are under the earth--for every ear shall hear it, and every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, while they hear the sound of the trump, saying: Fear God, and give glory to him who sitteth upon the throne, forever and ever; for the hour of his judgment is come.
88:105 - And again, another angel shall sound his trump, which is the sixth angel, saying: She is fallen who made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication; she is fallen, is fallen!
88:106 - And again, another angel shall sound his trump, which is the seventh angel, saying: It is finished; it is finished! The Lamb of God hath overcome and trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.
88:107 - And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.
88:108 - And then shall the first angel again sound his trump in the ears of all living, and reveal the secret acts of men, and the mighty works of God in the first thousand years.
88:109 - And then shall the second angel sound his trump, and reveal the secret acts of men, and the thoughts and intents of their hearts, and the mighty works of God in the second thousand years--
88:110 - And so on, until the seventh angel shall sound his trump; and he shall stand forth upon the land and upon the sea, and swear in the name of him who sitteth upon the throne, that there shall be time no longer; and Satan shall be bound, that old serpent, who is called the devil, and shall not be loosed for the space of a thousand years.
88:111 - And then he shall be loosed for a little season, that he may gather together his armies.
88:112 - And Michael, the seventh angel, even the archangel, shall gather together his armies, even the hosts of heaven.
88:113 - And the devil shall gather together his armies; even the hosts of hell, and shall come up to battle against Michael and his armies.
88:114 - And then cometh the battle of the great God; and the devil and his armies shall be cast away into their own place, that they shall not have power over the saints any more at all.
88:115 - For Michael shall fight their battles, and shall overcome him who seeketh the throne of him who sitteth upon the throne, even the Lamb.
88:116 - This is the glory of God, and the sanctified; and they shall not any more see death.
88:117 - Therefore, verily I say unto you, my friends, call your solemn assembly, as I have commanded you.
88:118 - And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith.
88:119 - Organize yourselves; prepare every needful thing; and establish a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God;
88:120 - That your incomings may be in the name of the Lord; that your outgoings may be in the name of the Lord; that all your salutations may be in the name of the Lord, with uplifted hands unto the Most High.
88:121 - Therefore, cease from all your light speeches, from all laughter, from all your lustful desires, from all your pride and light-mindedness, and from all your wicked doings.
88:122 - Appoint among yourselves a teacher, and let not all be spokesmen at once; but let one speak at a time and let all listen unto his sayings, that when all have spoken that all may be edified of all, and that every man may have an equal privilege.
88:123 - See that ye love one another; cease to be covetous; learn to impart one to another as the gospel requires.
88:124 - Cease to be idle; cease to be unclean; cease to find fault one with another; cease to sleep longer than is needful; retire to thy bed early, that ye may not be weary; arise early, that your bodies and your minds may be invigorated.
88:125 - And above all things, clothe yourselves with the bond of charity, as with a mantle, which is the bond of perfectness and peace.
88:126 - Pray always, that ye may not faint, until I come. Behold, and lo, I will come quickly, and receive you unto myself. Amen.
88:127 - And again, the order of the house prepared for the presidency of the school of the prophets, established for their instruction in all things that are expedient for them, even for all the officers of the church, or in other words, those who are called to the ministry in the church, beginning at the high priests, even down to the deacons--
88:128 - And this shall be the order of the house of the presidency of the school: He that is appointed to be president, or teacher, shall be found standing in his place, in the house which shall be prepared for him.
88:129 - Therefore, he shall be first in the house of God, in a place that the congregation in the house may hear his words carefully and distinctly, not with loud speech.
88:130 - And when he cometh into the house of God, for he should be first in the house--behold, this is beautiful, that he may be an example--
88:131 - Let him offer himself in prayer upon his knees before God, in token or remembrance of the everlasting covenant.
88:132 - And when any shall come in after him, let the teacher arise, and, with uplifted hands to heaven, yea, even directly, salute his brother or brethren with these words:
88:133 - Art thou a brother or brethren? I salute you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, in token or remembrance of the everlasting covenant, in which covenant I receive you to fellowship, in a determination that is fixed, immovable, and unchangeable, to be your friend and brother through the grace of God in the bonds of love, to walk in all the commandments of God blameless, in thanksgiving, forever and ever. Amen.
88:134 - And he that is found unworthy of this salutation shall not have place among you; for ye shall not suffer that mine house shall be polluted by him.
88:135 - And he that cometh in and is faithful before me, and is a brother, or if they be brethren, they shall salute the president or teacher with uplifted hands to heaven, with this same prayer and covenant, or by saying Amen, in token of the same.
88:136 - Behold, verily, I say unto you, this is an ensample unto you for a salutation to one another in the house of God, in the school of the prophets.
88:137 - And ye are called to do this by prayer and thanksgiving, as the Spirit shall give utterance in all your doings in the house of the Lord, in the school of the prophets, that it may become a sanctuary, a tabernacle of the Holy Spirit to your edification.
88:138 - And ye shall not receive any among you into this school save he is clean from the blood of this generation;
88:139 - And he shall be received by the ordinance of the washing of feet, for unto this end was the ordinance of the washing of feet instituted.
88:140 - And again, the ordinance of washing feet is to be administered by the president, or presiding elder of the church.
88:141 - It is to be commenced with prayer; and after partaking of bread and wine, he is to gird himself according to the pattern given in the thirteenth chapter of John's testimony concerning me. Amen.
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I am in New York City and went by the Manhattan Temple this evening. The entrance was barricaded, there appeared to be a door that was smashed in, and police officers (anywhere from 20-30) were all around it, with a minimal of 100+ protestors holding signs derailing the Church. You might think that this would bother me, but all of this reminds me of the quote from Brigham Young, when he said that anytime you kick Mormonism, you kick it upstairs.
One year ago, if you would have thought that the Church would be under this scrutiny, you probably wouldn’t believe it. Truly we have a living prophet and a living Church where Jesus Christ is at the head and we are lead through the good times and the bad. Truly we are in the last days and we cannot be exempt from ridicule and mocking from time to time as Elder Maxwell so eloquently and prophetically pointed out (he also taught that a society that allows everything will eventually lose everything). While this has created division both inside and outside of the Church, many LDS have decided to stand as witnesses (Mosiah 18:8-10) rather than standing on the sidelines. Not out of bigotry, not out of hatred, but out of the teachings of the prophets and the covenants that we have made. Those who follow the Lord’s prophets will be blessed and will prosper (2 Chronicles 20:20).
Thanks, Bryce. I wish I had been the one to find and post this talk.
There is comfort in following the prophets, isn’t there? Thanks for this post!
Elder Clayton actually comments on Prop 8 instead of imagined recontextualizing from 30 years ago:
Latter-day Saints are free to disagree with their church on the issue without facing any sanction, said L. Whitney Clayton of the LDS Quorum of the Seventy. “We love them and bear them no ill will.”
http://www.sltrib.com/LDS%20News/ci_10797630
There is no imagined recontextualizing when Elder Maxwell was talking specifically about our participation in political issues, and how that relates to our church membership. This is exactly what Proposition 8 and everything around it is about. Truth is truth, whether it was spoken 30 years ago or 6000 years ago.
Of course the members of the church can choose to not support Proposition 8 and retain their membership. However, the leaders of the church have *specifically* requested that members of the church let their voice be heard. Sending letters to all church units in California, making websites and TV ads, as well as releasing multitudes of press releases should show members of the church that the Prophet, First Presidency, and Quorum of the Twelve feel strongly about this issue. If you feel that all of them, collectively, don’t know what they are talking about, I would ask if you have a testimony of them as prophets, seers, and revelators.
Another great talk on this subject by Elder Maxwell is "Behold, the Enemy Is Combined" (D&C 38:12) from May 1993 Ensign.
D&C 86:7
7 Therefore, let the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest is fully ripe; then ye shall first gather out the wheat from among the tares, and after the gathering of the wheat, behold and lo, the tares are bound in bundles, and the field remaineth to be burned.
It’s a good thing the anti-Romney crowd never unearthed this talk retrofitted it onto the contemporary political landscape…
What do you mean Brad K.?
Yes, why would that be a problem? I don’t see where Elder Maxwell said you shouldn’t get involved in politics as an individual or run for a political office.
“[N]ot being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ.”
This will be ever more true in the coming decades. I can only speak for myself, but one way the Lord will separate the sheep from the goats is through the stances that our Prophets will take on such politically charged issues as this. How many left the Church, or fell into inactivity, after the 1978 Priesthood declaration? I imagine others will follow suit today in the spirit of quiet protest against what they believe to be outright intolerance against God’s children.
This decision was an easy one for me. Unfortunately, in my opinion, these decisions will get tougher and tougher in the years to come.
This talk, to the extent that it is taken as binding upon Church members today, disabuses a key notion, insisted upon over and over again by Romney and his supporters alike: that Mormons, in matters political, are not beholden to the directives of Church leaders.
In other words, if Romney detractors, on the right and the left, interpreted this talk the way you do — as articulating an immovable imperative that in all matters including politics faithful LDS must obey their leaders unquestioningly — and (more importantly) convinced others to read it in the same way, neither Romney nor any Mormon would ever be able to get elected president. Which is why Romney repeatedly and emphatically insisted that Church members are free to follow their own conscience independently of what the Church has to say about any given political issue.
This wasn’t a political matter, Brad, it was a moral issue, which the Church has insisted upon over and over again, and which Elder Maxwell also noted in this address:
Of course members are free to follow their own conscience and act independently of what the prophet counsels. The Lord forces no one.
Wrong. It’s a political issue driven by moral concerns — like ALL political issues (as Elder Oaks has reminded us on multiple occasions. There are no political issues that are not also moral issues. It was not about convincing Mormons that gay marriage is immoral but about telling them to vote a certain way in a civil election and to campaign, organize, donate money, phone bank, canvas, and otherwise do whatever they could to influence its outcome to a particular end. I’m not saying the Church has no right to do that. In fact, I’ve argued publicly quite the opposite. I’m saying that we cannot assert, on the one hand, that when the Church tells us to vote a certain way we are under sacred, binding obligation to do it and simultaneously assert that a President Romney would not be beholden to Salt Lake.
Did I read a different talk from Brad K. and other commenters? What I read was a foretelling of the way religious people would be trampled on by others who would insist that their opinions can’t be brought to the public square because those opinions were informed by religious conviction. I don’t see ANYthing in it remotely supporting the notion that Mormons are or should be controlled politically by directives from church leaders.
I know we’re all barely in the same church anymore, but I’m beginning to wonder if we even speak the same language.
Brad K., do you really think that the Lord cares at all about politics? It is not the politics that concerns Him, it is the moral issues behind the politics. If we could have a moral society without the politics, then the Church wouldn’t feel the need to get involved as it has in recent days. But we can’t. Our world is becoming so wicked that these issues are now entering the political scene, and if the Church doesn’t stand for truth and right and for morality, then we may very well lose our freedom of religion. Proposition 8 wasn’t about a vote, it was about protecting the divine institution of marriage, which was in jeopardy. Have you read the statements from the Church on the issue?
Said President Harold B. Lee:
"You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may conflict with your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life ... Your safety and ours depends upon whether or not we follow ... Let's keep our eye on the President of the Church." (Conference Report, October 1970, p. 152-153.)
Sheri L. Dew remarked that if we don’t follow the living prophet, we might as well not have one. Clearly, nearly all political issues at their core have a morality connected to them. There are many instances (if not almost all) when the Church chooses not to get involved on moral issues that project serious political ramifications. Should it not catch our attention that the First Presidency chooses to speak out and ask us to get involved? And should this not rivet our attention to look and sustain them in such instances?
There are many issues that are political and not moral. Whether or not we pay 5.25% sales tax or 5.26% is not a moral issue, but a political one. How people get health care is not a moral issue, it is political. (notice I said how, not if)
Of course Romney’s LDS faith would affect his decisions. I’m sure his belief in a living prophet would also inform his decisions. Several presidents have openly practice religion, even going to church in front of the nation. Does this mean they are beholden to their preacher for how to run the country? Of course not, even if they are taking spiritual and emotional direction from the man.
I took Romney’s stance as ‘I am not going to call Salt Lake and ask them how to run the country.’ (his words not mine) As he said, “Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions. ”
When it comes to moral issues, and what is right and wrong in an eternal sense, the living prophet on the earth has the final say. That is what LDS members raise their hand to sustain during General Conference. He is the prophet, seer, and revelator for the church in all matters, and especially in moral matters.
Hey – I’m so concerned about this and found that the events in 3 Nephi in the Book of Mormon (before the First Coming of the Savior) are a parallel to the events that will transpire before the Second Coming of the Savior.
The church will once again endure persecution. The Righteous will be separated from the Wicked.
Every Mormon is closely watching the events with heavy hearts.
I love this article you shared.
Thanks
I agree that the overall message of the talk is that taking political position based upon religiously informed moral convictions will become increasingly out of vogue in the future. Prophetic indeed. The concern that drove my comments was derived from a particular passage:
Not coincidentally, this passage was included in Yes-On-8 email that circulated virally among LDS inside and outside of CA (I personally received it 5 or 6 times in the week before the election), as an admonition that people should support this for one reason and one reason only: the Brethren had spoken. I’m not arguing that that is an out of line position for anyone to take. Just that it’s inconsistent to take it and simultaneously take umbrage at the fact that evangelicals and atheists don’t think the commonwealth should trust a Mormon president.
I think what is more inconsistent is to think that anyone, whether evangelical or atheist or any other persuasion, isn’t going to be influenced by the ideologies which surround them. Of course a Mormon president would be influenced by his religion. A Catholic president would be influenced by Catholicism. A Baptist by their church. A Muslim by their tradition. Even an atheist is influenced by their non-belief in God which is a religion of itself. We are in large measure what our environment makes of us, and we shouldn’t be ashamed having been influenced by the Church in the development of our character or moral beliefs. That’s what the Church is for. No one can stand completely independent or objective of their community and society. Indeed, who would want such a president? The Church has been recognized as having some of the highest standards and values of any organization on earth, and as such is respected by many. That is probably a large part of what helped Romney (and others) get to the political positions they have. It’s not a detriment to be influenced by the Church. Quite the contrary.
I’m not contending with anything you’re saying here, Bryce. And I know you get what I’m saying. Church members in CA mobilized and donated money and phone banked and canvassed for more reasons than their political preferences were informed by the general moral influence of their religion. If Romney had the nomination and the Church conducted the campaign in CA exactly the way it did, Prop 8 would have killed Romney. The fact that, even while campaigning for various conservative causes around the country, Romney stayed out of CA and the Prop 8 discussion shows that he still hopes for a future in national politics. His involvement in CA would have ruined any chance of that.
Why would it have killed Romney? You are saying that our Church’s standing up for moral values through the political system would have lost Romney’s chances for the presidency if he had been nominated by the Republican party. I disagree with that viewpoint. Many people greatly appreciated the Church’s role in Prop 8, and we made many more friends with other religions because of it. It showed many people that Mormons are serious about good morals in our society. A Mormon does not have to separate himself/herself from the Church in order to run for political office. Romney made that point too. The Church will continue to stand for moral values in our nation regardless if there is a Mormon running for office, and I don’t think it will ruin their chances. It may in fact help them. Romney is opposed to same sex marriage, as he has stated on many occasions in the past, and so it is not hard to imagine his position on Prop 8, even before the Church said anything. In fact, in 2003 as governor he lobbied for a similar state constitutional amendment that would ban same sex marriage in Massachusetts.
Does anyone else have the belief (as I do) that if Romney had not prematurely pulled out of the pre-Convention race, he would have been a stronger opponent of Obama than McCain? I think that McCain’s age and personality were detrimental–and that Obama won simply because there was no good choice. I think the Evangelicals would have supported Romney against Obama…as would the Catholics and many others.
Of course, the President elect now has the unenviable task of starting his presidency in a period of economic collapse, social incivility and violence, and rampant government growth which looks more like socialism every day. Perhaps Romney was wise.
I often think about his talk when the religious/secular debate comes up. And I think Maxwell makes some great points.
The problem I see with the talk is that it brushes over the debate in terms of black and white when the issue is much more complex.
I think a fair questions could be asked, which is a greater threat to Mormonism – secularism or evangelical Christianity? That same question could be asked about Judaism or Islam or many other religions. The answer is debatable.
What I really want to know – is Elder Maxwell using the word "religion" to describe the Restored Church of Christ? Christianity in general? All religions?
Now days, it seems the answer would be "all religions". President Hinckley did a pretty good job of getting that message into our thick skulls. But the mistake we make is assuming our Christian brothers and sisters feel the same way.
Remember – their fight is not for religious tolerance – but for Christianity to be the state religion. That does in no way benefit Mormons or any other religion. This is a mistake we are still making. We are not one of them. We are not on the same team. Let's stop trying to be.
He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. There is safety in and only in following those who hold the keys.
Ultimately, the only threat to this Church is from within and not from without. External forces cannot destroy it, be they politics, governments, or other religious denominations. What led to the apostasy in the meridian of times is that wolves dressed in sheeps clothing crept in, diluted the doctrine, changed the ordinances, and didn’t follow the prophets. We are fortunate to live in the latter days when the promise is that the Church will not be led into apostasy again, but rather will succeed in bearing off the kingdom.
Perhaps the most important message that Elder Maxwell offers is that clarity of standing with the prophet. The prophet is one who sees things that we cannot see. While this may appear to be a grey matter to many LDS, it appears to be not so grey to those who hold the keys. And we can take comfort with the Lord’s admonition in D&C 21:5: “For his word shall ye receive as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.” It will take patience and faith to stand with President Monson at times. If we keep our eye on the president of the Church, we will never be led astray. That is the Lord’s promise to us as LDS.